I'd like to present a debate between Sandel and two of his readers. Edward Stevenson takes a different position:
Argument completely without foundation. The author confuses market/price transparency with market existence. much of what is referenced is not an expansion of a market, but either 1) increased awareness of the prices due to better communication of obscure transactions (cost of immigration), 2) or increased liquidity of existing transactions (we used to give kids candy for reading a book, then fake bucks, now they get dollars). There is not need for a public debate. if a market exists it means that two people somewhere agree that a market should exist and thus it does. to limit the existence of markets is to limit the existence of human interaction plane and simple. two people sitting in a coffee shop exchanging ideas is a market transaction both agree that the ideas being expressed and listened to are worth the value of their time, cumulative costs (the parking meter, and the coffee etc), and the opportunity cost. Thus even me reading and commenting on this article is a form of a market transaction, one that I am glad can exist without the gaze of scrutiny but those involved in a public debate of the proneness and morality of my discretion of time and worthiness of my comments.A Sue Bond has it in a different way:
I disagree that there is such a stark dichotomy: markets or government. And I disagree that the markets are more about freedom than money. A poor woman 'choosing' to sell her ova or rent out her uterus so her family can have somewhere to live or her children get an education is not a 'choice'. Rich women don't make these 'choices', because they don't have to. Poor people may feel compelled to sell their kidneys to give their families things that we take for granted. This is not freedom, this is making excuses for not doing anything about social inequality and for not caring about others.So, here you have it, pro and con, what's your view? Do you agree with Sandel that,
Some say the moral failing at the heart of market triumphalism was greed, which led to irresponsible risk-taking. The solution, according to this view, is to rein in greed, insist on greater integrity and responsibility among bankers and Wall Street executives, and enact sensible regulations to prevent a similar crisis from happening again.This is, at best, a partial diagnosis. While it is certainly true that greed played a role in the financial crisis, something bigger was and is at stake. The most fateful change that unfolded during the past three decades was not an increase in greed. It was the reach of markets, and of market values, into spheres of life traditionally governed by nonmarket norms. To contend with this condition, we need to do more than inveigh against greed; we need to have a public debate about where markets belong—and where they don’t.Go ahead!
I'm closing this post next Wednesday at 11pm.
I believe that fixing the problem of greed would fix the problem of these morally questionable markets. You can tell people where markets do and do not belong. You can ban certain types of markets. You can do all these things, but people will still do them. As was mentioned before, the poor are the ones doing these things. They are doing it not out of desire to do so, but out of necessity. If we promote financial stability, these problems will go away on their own. To try and address these issues is to try and treat the symptoms. We must concern ourselves with the cause of these problems: greed. Greed has pooled all the wealth into the hands of few over the last thirty years. The disparity this has created is what has lead people to search for income through non-traditional channels. A person with financial stability does not need to go out and sell body parts to make ends meet.
ReplyDeleteNobrega, Barbara
ReplyDeleteM/W/F 11-11:50
Many will argue that the reason for the 2008 financial crisis was greed. Although this is the likely cause of the financial crisis, other things played a part as well. I personally believe it was primarily greed from all of Wall Street. They say money is the root of all evil, which goes hand in hand with greed. After seeing the financial crisis happen and the damage it is done many are starting to believe this is true. The financial crisis has created a market where morality is completely thrown out the window. To sell your body parts for money one would think is the lowest of lows. One must consider though what if doing so is the difference between your children eating a meal or starving? It is difficult to simply pass judgment and it is not the important factor in this situation. The important thing is to find a solution to these problems. To do this one must start with how the pie of justice is being cut, unfortunately that is not an easy task so that equality is first but it should be done. In doing so will slowly eliminate all the injustices that the less well off in this country face.
It's kind of sad to think about how the world we live in right now has turned into such a sad and dark place. There exist such a huge inequality, that people have to sell their own body just to provide food and shelter for their love ones. Just thinking about this makes me sick to my stomach. The worse thing is that those who don't see this ,most likely take many things for granted.
ReplyDeleteThinking about this right now reminds me of a quote used in the spider-man movies. "With great power, comes great responsibility" This is especially true in the government. They see what is happening, but they don't do anything to help those in need, and instead, they bail out the bankers who caused many people out of their jobs and even lose their house and more. I believe that there are some things that should be for sale, but selling your own body parts shouldn't be one of them.
Brittany Ferguson
ReplyDeletePHI2064
April 2, 2012
First off, no one should have to sale their body parts just to survive. Yes, we do have many financial problems that need to be dealt with. Sometimes the government tries to help out the ones in need. But they can try harder to help more families. A lot of people are taking the government as a joke because to them it seems like they are not trying to help the people at all. I do blame the government for helping the high class more with their financial issues than the poor people. The thing is that, they spend too much time on irrelevant issues that’s not major to us what so ever. The fact that no one really want to help others makes a lot of greed. Greed is excessively or inordinately derious of wealth. People begin to become greedy when they don’t have money to get what they want and need. The economy was destroyed because of the financial crisis. This is what makes it harder for families to survive. And of course that is what forces them to begin to do outrageous things just to survive. The government needs to step up and just get everything back together as a whole.
I believe that the problem of greed has brought us to where we are right now with the financial crisis. Because of greed, people have wanted more money and tried to figure out ways around certain situations to try and make more money in the short term and not think of the long term. You can try and teach people about the good markets and bad markets, but I believe in the end people will just try to do what they think will make them the most money for their well-being, whether illegal or not. The reason why it will continue to happen is the example given; the poor will continue to sell body parts not because of greed but because of necessity and that will keep markets that should not exist open. I believe the government should step in and try to help people in need more by providing them with better opportunities to succeed and not continue to bail out banks and put billions of dollars into them when they spend them the wrong way.
ReplyDeleteThis act of loyalty and integrity is transparent. One of the main reason why we are having financial crisis is because of greed. Especially in the market place. The poor doesn't have to sell their bodies to prostitution or sell their organs just to accumulate money to support their family. Of course this is ludicrous, we should be finding a solution for this conundrum, rather just sitting and scratching our heads like senseless apes. Greed is the prime factor. But this act of greed isn't going to stop in the market place , but that doesn't mean we can't a solution for this. Every situation or conundrum has a solution, but some are just harder to solve .
ReplyDeleteMWF 11-11:50 am
ReplyDeleteTo have a free and open market is going to raise concerns that we already have with society. The market is meant for finances but people tend to turn this into something that can be useful. The poor will use the market to sell their organs by choice but also by necessity to feed their families. The greedy take advantage of these poor people to make a lot of money some of which go to "high class" execs in big companies. The market can be a good or bad thing depending on how you decide to use it.
Though greed is a main factor to this discrepancy, one has to understand the growing amount of non existent empathy towards the middle/low classes. As said above, the rich don't have to make that "choice", whereas poor women are left with drastic choices in order to provide money for their families. Greed comes in the form of non-understanding and the ability to just not care about how every one else is doing, how they have to scrape for money to make ends meet. Knowing the root of the problem and fixing it (whether good and/or bad markets) instead of looking at the CEOs and presidents and complaining about their frivolous spending (spending money given to them on ill-needed vacations and private jets) or feeling sorry for the poor (the lengths they go to to put their kids through college). It's very unfortunate, but they don't HAVE to sell their body or body parts. There are other solutions, but it just sucks that we have to go to that as a last resort.
ReplyDeleteMaybe if the government actually cared about its people than its party, stuff would get done on the subject.
Ernesto Ferris
MWF 11/11:50
PHI2604 - Ethics
Tiffay Garcia
ReplyDeleteAlthough Edward Stevenson has a point in saying that "if a market exists it means that two people somewhere agree that a market should exist and thus it does" there is no such excuse for greed inside of those existing markets. To be honest, freedom is not free. In this country, the more money you have, the more you are able to live a "comfortable" or "fulfilling" life. This entire country and government is in a complete financial frenzy. It is morrally unfair that a woman with four children has to sell an egg from her uteris in order to feed her children and keep their head above water for a certain amount of time while a refugee from another country who has been living in the US for less than five years is already on welfare and gets food stamps but doesnt want to work. Where is the justice in that? People with money attempt to belittle those that dont have it with the word "choice." As if we choose to starve or struggle. As if we don't have a plan. Its not easy for everyone and if it were possible for this corrupt government to understand that its about American as a whole, not about them personally, we could be able to move on and live in a better America.
Michna Duval
ReplyDeletephi2604/11-11:50
M,W,F
Greed is an unsolved issue that should be looked into. Now-a-days people that aren't stable out weigh the wealthy but that doesn't call for someone to sell there body. Selling your body is a very cheap, degrading, and the wrong method to solving a problem. Though it isn't right to judge someone for there decision, I still believe there are many other options to consider. A person who is selling there body might argue that they have no support, they have mouths to feed, and other issues to solve. I don;t believe that statement is accurate at all. There are so many opportunities out there waiting to be used and discovered. The government are big supporters when it comes to helping those who are need, especially those with children. Are taxes itself help pay for these services like grants, shelters and other programs that live to help those individuals.Everyone makes mistakes and just because you screwed up doesn't mean there's no other way. So no one should even think about selling there body but instead grasp other opportunities because though they say there's no money out there and the market may be bad but everyone is working hard, earning money; still doing what they have to do to survive in this economy.
Estrella Alvarado
ReplyDeletePhi2604/MWF/11-11:50
Greed is something that day by day we have less and less control over as a society. Everyday, everywhere we go, we inevitably put a price tag to everything that surrounds us, therefore finding value and capability in money. After reading the article I found myself on Sue Bond's side. Of course it is more about the money than it is about freedom. As he clearly stated, it is not an even exchange when it is not really a choice but a price not everyone can afford. Nor is it freedom when those selling their organs or anything similar do not have the right of equality granted. If this is about "freedom" and "choices" like Edward Stevenson stated, then in the future when absolutely everything has a price tag, anything could be justified, even when we find ourselves in another, or worse financial crisis.
Victoria Rosante
ReplyDeleteSadly, the world we live in today is composed of greed, not one of our best traits. Although we all have the capacity to be compassionate, it is often overlooked. No one should have to sell their body in order to eat, drink and live. The financial crisis needs to be looked at closer by the government and issues should be dealt with that are being left unresolved. We as a country need to realize how much we have compared other third world countries. I am not saying the government does not help those in need, but that they often overshadow the priorities of those in needs by dealing with the wealthy first. It is a sad realization that should be dealt with immediately.
Geraldine Flores
ReplyDeleteM,W,F 11:00-11:50
It's a depressing world when a poor woman or man has to consider selling an organ to provide food for the family. The problem with our world is that inequality is feed by greed. So our financial crisis was created by our greed and therefore our solution lies there. People only think about money and getting more money. However, money is not an unlimited amount and when you take more money; you are taking it from someone else. We need to stop thinking about short term results, and replace it with long term results to fix the financial crisis we are in. helping out the less fortunate will provide well being for the society as a whole. If the poor can gain skills and opportunities to gain financial success, then the government will be stimulated instead of just stalled in one place.
Social inequality and greed are the main factors that distort markets. I agree with Sue Bond that markets are more about money than freedom. Not everybody has to face the same choices and necessities, and the poor people are the ones that suffer the most. There is a big discrepancy between wealthy and poor people and believe it or not even though we might live in the same countries we are living in totally different worlds. Our concerns don’t have anything to do with one another. While some people’s concerns might be to rent or sell body parts to meet their needs, there is another person whose only concern is how he will duplicate his millions even if he has to give bad mortgages and make profit out of it. The point that I am trying to make is that how a market can be fair when we don’t have the same opportunities. We have to stop being so selfish and unfair and create more awareness and solutions to live in a better society and remember not everything should be for sale.
ReplyDeleteI believe there are certain things that should not be for sale,but in all over the world there are a lot of people has been selling their part of their body to support themself or their love ones because they have financial problems.I am not against women that rent out her uterus t in order to make her family have somewhere to live or her children get an education because in this life we all need to find a way to survive.Eventhough selling your body is not nice but everybody have responsibilities in America.A lot of females did it not because they love neither enjoyed doing it ,but sometimes they could not find any way to survive and they have to do it anyway. In order to stop that I think the government should be more active and members of congress need to take their work more serious by creating a lot of job to help these people in needs.
ReplyDeleteShannon Watson
ReplyDeleteMWF 11:00-11:50
Greed. All I can say is "tisk tisk tisk" It is really sad to see that people are so greedy now. I mean what has this world come to! And a women feeling the need to sell her body for a little money!? Its sad that this is what it has to come to! No women or anyone should have to feel that in order to survive, thay have to sell off their own bodies. Even if its just basic things that we cant live without. Im sure there are other ways to go about this. But selling what is THEIRS, should not even have to be a though.