Wednesday, February 8, 2012

Is same sex marriage moral? unconstitutional?


Same sex marriage is in the news again!
A federal appeals court panel ruled on Tuesday that a voter-approved ban on same-sex marriage in California violated the Constitution, all but ensuring that the case will proceed to the United States Supreme Court.
What's the ruling? Judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote:
Although the Constitution permits communities to enact most laws they believe to be desirable, it requires that there be at least a legitimate reason for the passage of a law that treats different people differently.
There was no such reason that Proposition 8 could have been enacted. All that Proposition 8 accomplished was to take away from same sex-couples the right to be granted marriage licenses and thus legally to use the designation ‘marriage,'the judge wrote, adding: "Proposition 8 serves no purpose, and has no effect, other than to lessen the status and human dignity of gay men and lesbians in California."

Let's take a closer look:

1. By majority vote, Prop 8 restricts marriage to the union of a man and a woman. 
2. But an individual has the right to marry the person of his or her choice.

So, there is a clash between peoples' rights and individual rights here.

Who wins? Well, inalienable rights seem to have priority (over majority rights) and should not be removed by any agency or government (including majority vote). Mind you, this is a libertarian view point (what I mean, closer to the right than you may think). Unless you're a moral conservative and think that the rights of the people in this case overturn the rights of the individual.

Philosophically speaking this is a fight between Locke on one side and Rousseau (and Burke) on the other. But same sex marriage is more contentious because of its religious connotation.     



The truth is that the majority of Americans seem to view homosexuality as morally wrong.  A recent study of 25 years of the General Social Survey indicates shifting attitudes about the perceived immorality of homosexuality, with growing negativity in the early 1990s and increasing liberalism more recently. Despite this liberalization in attitudes about some civil rights, only one third of the American public feel gay marriages should be recognized by law. Thus, we are at an unique moment of public ambivalence about attitudes toward the rights of gay men and lesbians to marry.

Yet, same-sex couples enjoy legal recognition in many countries outside the United States. They can marry in Belgium, Canada, the Netherlands, Spain, and South Africa. They can register as partners in at least fourteen other countries, achieving many, most, or all of the benefits and obligations accorded married couples. Among Western countries, the United States stands largely alone in maintaining an inflexible line between married couples and everyone else. 

Some sociologists suggest a growing ambivalence in attitudes, with Americans demonstrating relatively high hostility, negativity, and disapproval about gay marriage, but more positive attitudes toward other gay civil liberties, arises from some basic conflicts over core values. People are conflicted over their core values surrounding the perceived sanctity of family and marriage and their own rising individualism and efforts to tailor their life experiences to their personal choice.

Those who feel more threatened by the perceived "cultural weakening of heterosexual marriage" are more likely to oppose gay marriage. Those who have a greater personal stake in the institution of marriage perhaps feel a greater need to "protect" marriage from "the threat" of gay marriage.

What are your thought on the subject?

I am closing this post next Tuesday & 11pm.

33 comments:

  1. I believe that the government should play no active role when it comes to marriage. The government should spend their time with more important matter, rather than interfering with people rights to marry whether they are heterosexual or homosexuals. In the first amendment it mentions the right to marry, but somehow in most states it is illegal for homosexuals to marry, I always thought America was founded on freedom and the right to purse your own happiness. This is not the case however; the conservatives and religious community are always trying to interfere with someone’s freedom or happiness if it interferes with their own beliefs or if it is not what “God” intended. I guess it is just human nature to fear or ridicule anything that is not normal or different from what we are use too, because people feel that the “sacred rite of marriage between a man and a woman” is being threatened. People need to wake up and realize this is exactly what African Americans and women went through before they got their freedom and were treated as equals, so I hope people realize that we live in a different age and we need to move on from the old ways and change for the better.

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  2. MWF Ernesto Ferris


    It's a little ironic that the GOP likes to think of themselves as the party that's against big government. Except when it comes to social issues. What the judges did was completely fine, especially that history has shown when it comes to social issues (civil rights, women's rights, worker's rights, etc.), majority vote doesn't work. It took a judge's ruling to allow racial intergration in schools (Brown v. Board of Education), even though the state of Arkansas was against intergration in the majority. Same goes with gay marriage. Why should loving couples be denied the same basis of a union just because social and religious stigmas? It makes zero sense. America's issue with homosexuality can stem from a sense of high religion to sociocultural standards (to this day people tend to look at gays as "overtly feminine" while lesbians as "overtly butch" due to ongoing, albeit less one-dimensional stereotypes). The high divorce rate shows that gays aren't harming the "sacred institution" of marriage. It's already happening within heterosexuals.

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  3. Nobrega Barbara
    MWF 11-11:50

    I’ am a little torn on this subject because I have many different feelings on this subject. So I will say I’ am neutral on the matter. On one hand I feel as though government shouldn’t mix with religion and people should have the freedom to pursuit of happiness if that is what was originally implemented as law. On the other hand I’ am torn because if government didn’t put limits to certain things and was too liberal things would be a mess and everybody would eventually just be running wild. There are rules for a reason and they are executed for a reason. I have a personal opinion on gay marriage and if asked I will give that opinion. I just feel if your against gay marriage or homosexuality than be against it but don’t go out and impose your beliefs on anybody else unless asked. In the end I agree with John Locke and the pursuit of happiness should be left up to each individual with only certain boundaries that prohibit things that are blatantly wrong.

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  4. Brittany Ferguson
    PHI2604 MWF 11:00-11:50
    Professor Triff


    I honestly think that the government should just leave the gay marriage situation alone. the gay marriage is not a very important issue. I think that we do have a lot of other issues that should be dealt with. I know that christians are not supposed to be going in a gay route. But I have seen many gays in churches and no one seem to have a problem with it. Anyway only God can judge them. I just think that everyone has their choices and If he or she choose to be gay then so be it. The government is always trying to deal with minor issues than major issues. there are too many economic problems that the government is not dealing with. Yes, some may think that gay marriage or even being gay period is wrong and a waste of time. But I honestly I think that they are just wasting their time worrying about the wrong situation. I hang out with gay people and think that they are very friendly, so I feel like that is their choice. We are humans that make many different decisions.

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  5. Whether same sex marriage is moral or not, unconstitutional or not it’s a controversial issue in which it’s very difficult to take a side without having mixed feelings. On one hand I believe that not letting homosexuals get married, we are depriving them from the right of the deepest union between two people that love each other under our society, therefore we are interfering with their pursuit of happiness. On the other hand, marriage is not only a legal document or contract between two people it’s the base of our society and I think it should be between a man and a woman. Personally I oppose same sex marriage, because I think this would lead to other problems in our society. For example there won’t be boundaries between what is right or wrong. I think that by allowing gay marriage our society will be promoting it and I don’t think that it is right. I don’t have anything against homosexuals but I think that allowing them to get married that it will be too much. Another problem caused by the gay marriage is the adoption of children. Like any couple a lot of them want to adopt babies, so here we have a third person involved that will grow up believing that same sex marriage is the normal thing; not to mention the psychological problems they might face because of social pressure. Is our society mentally prepared to deal with the consequences that gay marriage will create?

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  6. Michna Duval
    PHI2604 MWF 11-11:50
    Perez-Triff

    Is same sex marriage moral?No,according to tradition. It is very immoral in a religious sense. I believe the government should bud out of the situation and worry about more important issues than diminishing minor issues of same sex marriage.What happen to equality in America?Isn't it someone's choice to mate with the same sex?It may be religiously wrong but at the end of the day people are entitled to there own opinions.People go against,comment,or speculate on what they believe is morally correct/what they believe or know is normal.But who are they to tell someone they aren't normal and to take away there right of happiness. Same sex marriage is not moral because that's not how it was intended to be but banning same sex marriage isn't going to stop people from being who they are but give them a reason to fight and have even more faith for what they believe in.

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  7. Meisel Vera
    PHI2604
    MWF 11-11:50

    I believe that this is such a controversial issue in the United States because there are so many immigrants in this country with many different cultural background that clash with different points of views, but all have the same moral grounds. This country is a very independent country , giving everyone entitlement to their own opinion. It isn't correct to give this decision as to if gay marriage is constitutional or not in the hands of the government. Just like we have freedom of religion or speech , we should have the right to marry anyone we'd like. Its a personal choice not a majority choice. The government is taking away happiness from people that deserve it more than other "normal" people. It's as if you are depriving some people from their pursuit to happiness. And that is morally wrong.

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  8. loriet martinez

    I understand why some people are against the subject of same sex marriage. I mean traditionally marriage has been between a man and a woman, not same sex. But putting tradition aside, there is no reason why it shouldn't be allowed. These people have feelings just like any other human being, and in a sense not allowing them to do something is a sort of discrimination. I just don't see what the big deal is. It's their personal lives; let them live how they want to, with the same rights as a "Straight" person. I personally have the opinion that government should not interfere in those type of situation since they clearly say in a constitution that people in the United State have the right of happiness. Most of these people born with these issues in their sexual direction. My point, I am not completely agree with the idea of marriage, however; I have the opinion that nobody is allowed to take decision in the life of others.

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  9. Loriet Martinez

    I understand why some people are against the subject of same sex marriage. I mean traditionally marriage has been between a man and a woman, not same sex. But putting tradition aside, there is no reason why it shouldn't be allowed. These people have feelings just like any other human being, and in a sense not allowing them to do something is a sort of discrimination. I just don't see what the big deal is. It's their personal lives, let them live how they want to, with the same rights as a "Straight" person.

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  10. Joshua Rolnick
    MWF 11-11:50

    As the older, more "orthodox" generations begin to wither away, so goes their ancient ideals on whats right and wrong deep in the ground with them. Lets face it, times are changing. I think everyone in this class, hell, the majority of the city of Miami can agree with all those who oppose proposition 8. I live in South Beach, self explanatory. I see happy gays holding hands and skipping down Lincoln Road every other day. They could probably teach us hetero's a thing or two about being happy with someone. Gay people were made just like the rest of us, ergo, they deserve all of the same rights us heterosexuals got the pleasure of receiving since 1776. It seems like religious extremists are the only thing holding America back on our future at its neck with a thin wire. Lets cut that baby quick before it slits our throats.

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  11. Ingrid Chavez
    MWF 11-11:50.

    I'm certainly not against same sex marriage. I don't think that by two same sex individuals getting married would harm or affect anyone else. It's their choice, and nobody should get in between their personal preferences. As to religion, I don't think it should get mixed with laws. Religions and laws are two different subjects. Some people might not be religious and they are lawful citizens. Although I don't think marriage defines love, if these individuals want to marry, so be it. It's not a criminal act they are committing. Laws shouldn't take such a simple happiness away from them. Laws have evolved as time has passed, life changes and therefore points of views. We're living in an open minded society, where discrimination is illegal, and we've gone a long way as a whole in the world. This really shouldn't be such a controversial topic when many are so open about it during these times.

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  12. Gabriella Fraenk
    Feb. 14, 2012
    MWF 11:00-11:50 AM

    I will blatantly state that gay marriage is not immoral nor is it unconstitutional. First off, there are larger issues out there: genocide, sexual exploitation, trafficking just to mention a few. Gay people should be granted the same rights as anyone else, they are not causing any harm and deserve to be happy and united in marriage. It seems that fanatics of religion and strong orthodox believers are stuck in this paradigm that gay people are either possessed by the devil or that a union of holy matrimony should ONLY be between a man and a woman. Gay people should not be condescended or denied any human rights due to their sexual preference or orientation. STRAIGHT people get married and it usually ends up in disaster. So why not give gay people the same opportunity to cry about their marriages seventy-two days later and about how they spent ten million dollars on a formal wedding that was all a sham? Well the gist of this argument is that the government should allow homosexuals to marry, in a monogamous setting, to celebrate the union of two people that are committed to each other.

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  13. To start off, the government has no rights ti intervene into people's lives, but the government should focus on more significant issues that effect our economy. My opinion on same sex marriage ; I am not in favor of it, but we have rights or you can just call it a negative rights. In a religious perspective it is immoral because Traditionally marriage is between male and female not the same sex which means it isn't acceptable, but when we apply this in a non-religious perspective, who has the power to take your rights ? unless you are God. So in a sense this controversial topic seems ambiguous to me. so this can go on forever . I'm having mixed feelings towards this topic.

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  14. When it comes to same sex marriages, I personally don't understand why it would even be considered a marriage. A marriage is the love between a man and women. We already allow same sex out in the open, and the majority have no problems with it. I believe that marriage should be only between a man and a women, and for same sex individuals asking that they should also be allowed to have marriage is basically asking for too much. I believe that it's unconstitutional. Same sex individuals already have the right to purse happiness, and that happiness is to be with the person that they want to be with. Anything else would be basically trying to abuse our laws by asking for more. Suppose that same sex marriages is allowed? Next they might want to ask to adopt children and raise them believing in same sex or create certain rights that only apply for them. There are to many negatives to this than positives, and that allowing this to go any further would cause a society uproar if it already hasn't. Personally I don't really care about same sex marriages, but I just don't want it to go overboard and cause problems.

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  15. ‘’Allowing gays to marry would violate the sanctity of marriage.” This is one of the all-time bullshit arguments I’ve ever heard when it comes to legal matters. None of the groups who fight against allowing gay marriage ever advocate outlawing divorce. With the percentage of marriages that end in divorce being near 50%, wouldn’t that be more effective than banning gay marriage? Both are equally ridiculous to me. No, the reason these people want to ban gay marriage is not for the reasons they claim. And why would they lie? Because the real reason is embarrassing, and something to be ashamed of. The reason is hate and or ignorance. For one reason or another, being the way they were brought up or simple lack of understanding, they don’t like gay people. When you don’t like someone, or worse hate them, and you’re given a chance to give them a little bit of misery, you may or may not be inclined to do so. I feel like the kind of people who don’t like gay people for no other reason than they are different, are the kind of people to do so. So if you put a law up for vote that would hurt the gay community, you're going to get the people who don’t like gays to vote for it whether they believe it’s fair or not. Hell, I don’t like douchebags who wear sunglasses in dark clubs, and if you were to put a law up for vote that would ban douchebags who wear sunglasses in dark clubs from owning land, then yeah I would vote for it. Because I mean, fuck `em right?

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  16. Over the last few decades the idea of same sex marriage have increased significantly as an alternative lifestyle in society as we know today.This issues leaves much room to debate .There are so many people who are opposed to this type of relationship ,however ,there are many of them who are impartial about this life style.In my opinion I do not think people should have any problem with same sex marriage,because we all have the same right. If man and woman can be married to pursuit their happiness why not same sex can do it too .These people have feeling just like any human being ,they deserve to be happy as well as anyone in earth.These people are just trying to pursuit their happiness by having relationship with the same sex as themselves.

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  17. Personally, I'm for gay marriages being an equal right. Looking back at the statement of it threatening the "cultural weakening of heterosexual marriages" makes no sense. How is a same sex marriage going to affect you? Marriages should not be termed by the sexuality a couple possesses. Being married is about the person you want to be with, not their gender. Prop 8 could be considered unconstitutional because it doesn't allow the freedom for homosexuals to do what heteros do. When a big controversy like Prop 8 happens, it makes people feel degenerate and ashamed. It brings the wrong ideas in influencing the world. If gay people can't get married, what else are they forbid to do? The government has far worse things to deal with than banning same sex marriage, luckily the state of California can breathe a little better now.

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  18. Andres Bonilla

    Personally, I am against gay marriage. i believe that marriage should be kept between a man and a woman. i do not understand why this would even be an issue that the government would even consider when there are far more important matters to deal with. for example the economy and immigrants rights. what about those rights shouldn't an immigrant have the same rights as every one else ? they are humans. in this case marriage is only a document. i have nothing against the gay community but if the government would allow this then who knows what the future expects. people will find a way to get what they want by protesting every little thing. i believe there are restrictions and a certain line that you just do not cross. the government i think should have no say in this and if homosexuals want to be together then so be it. why do you have to get married to prove that you love someone

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  19. Laura Delgado
    PHI2604
    MWF 11:00-11:50
    I do not beleive that gay marriage is in any way unconstitutional. Our founding fathers preached the pursuit of happiness and if getting married with somebody of the same sex is part of your happiness then I am all for it. If anything it is unconstitutional for the government to get in the way of our pursuit of happiness. As for the religious side of the debate, I beleive in the separation of church and state and even if the church beleives that homosexuality is immoral, that should have no influence on our laws. I have no problem with gay marriage nor homosexuality in general. It is despicable that gays have had to deal with such cruel discrimination for all these years and that it took until a short while ago for Don't ask Don't tell to be repealed. A person's sexual preference is nobodys business but their own.

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  20. Personally I am for gay marriage. Everyone has the right to make a choice of who they want to be with without being judged.It goes a long with the persuit of happiness and this is something that makes people happy. The governement shoudlnt have the right to intervene between personal rights unless it threatens the lives of the people in the country. Their rights was something a person was born with exactly how written in the constitutuion but now people decide to shift peoples words around and turn it into something else, espcially for their benefit. People have lost the definition of marriage and its turned it into a persons gender instead of being with the person they choose to be. Prop 8 definatly discriminates agaisnt people and their rights.

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  21. Andrea Smith
    PHI2604 MWF 11-11:50

    Every individual in this country is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. People are free to practice their own religion, speak their minds, and should be able to marry whomever they please. Nobody can control who they fall in love with and if it happens to be someone of the same gender then why should a government negate them of their rights. This forms a huge controversy between the people because this country’s foundation is made up of Christian values. But if we, the people, can’t allow two men to get married then it makes us look like hypocrites. The one right we should exercise even more is our freedom. The judge’s decision was not unconstitutional because just like same-sex marriage isn’t what the majority wants, women’s and civil rights weren’t either. In my opinion, it’s about time for America to catch up to the other nations that do allow same sex marriage and move on to other issues that are not only just as but probably even more important than this. Once this has passed, it would become more socially acceptable and decrease the discrimination against gays.

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  22. Daniel Sanchez
    PHI2604
    11:00-11:50

    Being a libertarian, I do not beleive that the government should have any role in deciding whether or not gays should be allowed to be married. As human beings we have the liberty to love whoever we want and I beleive that marriage should be about love and not "tradition". Some Americans beleive that we should preserve the traditional American family, while this does make some sense who is to say that another type of family is any worse than the traditional family. It is shameful that in most of the country gay marriage remains illegal and those gay couples are robbed of their right to marriage. A government should never be involved in our private lives and it is about time that the ban on gay marriage is removed in all 50 states

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  23. Nayel Medina MWF 11:00-11:50amFebruary 14, 2012 at 5:07 PM

    In my opinion, gay marriage should not be illegal. I don't find it morally wrong for someone to marry someone they love, whether same sex or not. Marriage is a union between two people who are committing to be together for life. The government needs to figure out whether to make it legal or not and stop going back and forth like in California. They need to do a vote in this country to say yes or no and move on. Too much money and time is being spent on this topic when they should be focusing on greater things. Unfortunately, many people find it wrong for religious purposes and if they don't approve they should be able to just ignore the situation and let people choose what they believe in. Not everyone thinks or believes the same things.

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  24. Why does the government care about whom you marry, what do those anti-gay clubs and associations care either? The mass has a voice too and government has to respect their right to vote against same sex marriage, but I say why are they busy worrying about others and don’t look at their own self. They are busy protesting gay marriage and are blinded to how heterosexual marriages are failing on a faster rate. But they are also violating an individual’s right by saying who they should marry. I think you marry the partner you choose, not someone chosen for you. Personally I’m not against gay marriage. I think marriage has to be with the one you love. And if you are a lesbian or gay, then that is who you love. And what about the divorce rate of heterosexual marriages, off the charts. Why are there no associations against that? That’s a worst example on the children. Showing them love doesn’t exist or lasts forever, unhappy families and kids that have to thrown back and forth from two different homes. I think that’s worst then seeing same sex couples being happily married and in love. I know it’s a religious issue as well, but I think god loves every human no matter what.

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  25. Shantell Meneses
    Whether or not people believing we should be spending time on this subject its happening. And its a big issue as everyone can see. As for same sex marriage being moral or unconstitutional, its a real fact of religion. If religion didn't play a huge role in this, same sex marriage would not be a problem and would be allowed. But I personally don't think gay marriage isn't immoral. Love is love. as for unconstitutional, what the judge said is right, everyone should have the same rights. We have the right of pursuit of happiness, so why would the law go against certain actions that aren't immoral. If other countries have absolutely no problem with same sex marriage then why do we? There shouldn't be a difference between other countries and us on certain views, but we do. People should have the right to marry who they want. Can our government be more controlling and tell us who to love and who not to love? But what is so wrong about gay people getting married?

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  26. Marriage can be defined as "a legally recognized relationship, established by a civil or religious ceremony, between two people who intend to live together as sexual and domestic partners". This is exactly what marriage is. Its between two people who are in love, whether they're gay or straight.My view on the matter of gay marriage is a libertarian one. A person should be allowed to have absolute control over their life and are free to do whatever they want with their life or property, as long as they respects the liberty of others.The Government should not be involved in this matter. People should be allowed to marry who ever they please. I personally don't see any harm in gays marrying. Gays are going to be together regardless so why not let them marry? There is no real harm in gays marrying and thus isn't immoral. In proposition 8, Judge Stephen Reinhardt even states that "Proposition 8 serves no purpose, and has no effect, other than to lessen the status and human dignity of gay men and lesbians in California." This here goes to show that the government should just stay out of issues like this one.

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  27. Tiffany Garcia MWF 11-11:50

    To start, I think that the focus on prop 8 is a huge example of this country's ignorance. Americans need to understand that a person's sexual preference does not make them ANY LESS of a person. A man could love and keep a relationship with another man just as well (if not better) than a woman can with a man. I believe that when it comes to relationships, marriage is the step of steps. Why should a same sex couple not be able to embark on the journey that is marriage? They have as good of a chance as anyone to make it work. According to the readings, Judge Stephen Reinhardt says that proposition 8 "serves no purpose, and has no effect, other than to lessen the status and human dignity of gay men and lesbians in California." Why would anyone want to do that to another human being? I think the government has more important things to worry about than attempting to prevent people who love each other from marriage.

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  28. Geraldine Flores

    I was surprise and disappointed by the fact that only 1/3 of Americans supported same-sex marriages. It is morally wrong to deny homosexuals their negative rights. Marriage is a way to express your love and devotion to your significant other. Marriage is not a privileged only to be given to what is considered normal, it is a birth right to have the freedom to love whoever you choice. Locke stated we have the right to pursuit of happiness and marriage will qualify under that. Another surprising factor is that around the world, people are opening their eyes at the injustice homosexuals faced.I find it ironic that one of the most powerful nations isn't leading the campaign to true human equality.Small nations like the Netherlands and Belgium have changed their philiosophy in a way to benefit same-sex marriages.California propostion 8 should be ban and ruled out. I agree with Judge Reinhardt opinion that propostion 8 has no legal backbone to remain in the constitution. Homosexuals are human beings with the exact same rights as heterosexuals.

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  29. Estrella Alvarado
    Phi2604
    MWF

    In my opinion, same sex marriage is immoral. I believe that it is against God’s plan for the make-up of a marriage. Again, this is just my opinion. I also believe morality is based on a set belief, not a set of laws. Religion can be the base of morals, but it is a choice for people to agree or disagree with those morals. The Christian faith believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. As a result, it is immoral for marriage to be of the same sex.

    Contrary to marriage being moral, same-sex marriage is not unconstitutional. There not a specific paragraph in the constitution that states that marriage has to be between a man and a woman. The constitution on the other hand, is a set of laws that must be followed. There are parts of the constitution that do say that people have the right to the pursuit of happiness, but that is a matter of perspective.

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  30. Diana Abraham
    PHI2604 MWF 11AM

    Gay marriage has been a controversial issue for a while, and it has been growing rapidly. This is just my opinion, but I believe in tradition marriage between a man and a woman. I don’t want to get into religious beliefs, but this is just my point of view and since I am a Christian, I do believe that God created a man and a woman to love each other and to become one flesh. Aside from that, I do have high respect for homosexuals because they are humans who want to fight for rights just like everyone else. I respect their decisions if they like being with the same sex because it’s nice to see people happy with the ones they love. Since I believe in tradition marriage, I think the government shouldn’t pass the law but I do believe that they should at least pass a law for homosexuals to be able to go around expressing their sexuality happily in public without having any issues, that way things would be more balanced. All in all, it would be nice to see society smile and being able to be with whoever they choose to be with.

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  31. I don't see gay marriage as unconstitutional. Everyone has a right to marry they're special loved one. The fact that they are judged and prohibited is unconstitutional. Marriage is a union of two people that are commited to each other, to help each other and love each other. Why shouldn't same sex marriages be allowed. These are two people who love each other, their gender should not matter at all.

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  32. ^^ Marilyn Garate phi2604 mwf 11-1150

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  33. shannon watson mwf 11 11 50February 17, 2012 at 8:26 AM

    As a Christian myself this is upsetting to see. That first picture of the guy holding a sgn saying "homosexuals are possessed by demons.". That is not right. We need to be looking on them with love and not hate. God does not hate them. Now say that homosexuality is wrong. God still loves them, just not the sin. We are all still created in God's image. Now yes, it's odd for Christian to say that it's not wrong or that it is moral. I almost cried at that first picture. Why? Because I, a typical "Jesus freak" don't think it's wrong. I'm not gay myself but I know people who are and who have tried t change to please other people and God and in the end they wind up unhappy with themselves or just give up on God because they think he hates them now. I've heard the stories of long nights crying and praying and still being gay in the end. My heart goes out to them. And for the gay people in the 2nd picture saying God still loves them, they are an awesome example courage.

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